[Man] Hi, this is Mel Gibson here to do the, uh, you know...
Give you the wristwatch show on this.
Kick back, open up a soft drink, put your feet up.
I'm here with Farhad Safinia, co-writer,
co-producer and, uh, all-around...
I don't know. He was there. He saw it happen. We were there.
- [Safinia] We were. - [Gibson] This was our baby, man.
- If two men can have a baby. - [Safinia] Don't! Please.
[Laughter]
- [Gibson] Don't go there. OK. - [Safinia] No.
- Not for two hours anyway. - [Gibson] No.
- OK, we'll try and keep it clean. - [Safinia] Yes.
- [Gibson] You do the same. - [Safinia] I shall.
- [Gibson] Good. No, them, I mean, them. - [Safinia] Oh, I see. [laughs]
Do you wanna talk about how many times it took us to get this shot right
- 'cause this is all one single shot. - [Gibson] Yeah. Got it. It's one shot.
We had to get the tapir to pop out right on cue.
And, of course, he's a... He's a dumb animal.
Or maybe he's a smart animal, but he's an animal.
Not inclined to cooperate, but, uh, he came right into the lens there.
- It was amazing. - [Safinia] Yeah.
Tapirs are actually notoriously, uh, shy, yeah.
They're very afraid of things. And if you frighten them and they start to run,
you better get outta the way, 'cause they'll take everything with 'em.
[Gibson] They'll go right through your trees, animals, you know.
[Safinia] They're heavily endangered,
so we had to be very careful with our particular one.
[Gibson] He got treated better than I did on this shoot.
[Safinia laughs] He did, yeah.
[Gibson] "More ice cream, Mr. Tapir?" "Why, yes, thank you."
People don't know what it is. They think it's... What are they?
- [Safinia] A pig? - [Gibson] A pig they call it. But...
- It's actually closer to being a horse. - [Safinia] That's right.
It sort of throws you off if you don't know anything about the film.
You don't know what era, what time period you're watching and...
- [Gibson] "Who are these guys?" - [Safinia] Yeah, "Who are these guys?"
[Gibson] "Why aren't they wearing trousers?"
[Safinia laughs] Yeah.
[Gibson] And a tapir would've been the... uh, the largest game animal
in their forest, in their world, so...
[Safinia] Because in Central America in the period where the film is set,
- there were no horses. - [Gibson] No.
[Safinia] Horses arrived with conquistadors.
[Gibson] Horses came on boats. Oh, boy.
[Squealing]
- [Gibson] Sounds like a pig. - [Safinia] It does, yeah.
[Laughter]
[Gibson] 'Course, this was a puppet.
[Safinia] Yes, it was.
[All laughing]
[Gibson] There's our guys. Hand-chosen.
[Safinia] For the bad teeth. Right? That's what...
[laughter]
[Men whooping, laughing]
[Gibson] Prerequisite was they had to have a terrible dentist and...
[Safinia] These images, these were the first shoot. This is the first day.
- [Gibson] First day, yeah. - [Safinia] Everybody was nervous.
- [Gibson] Oh, yeah, all the guys. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] First time in front of a camera for most of 'em.
[Safinia] We watched a lot of, uh... a lot of, um, documentary footage
of tribal people living in forests and stuff
just to try and get some of this right
because they really wouldn't have carted off the entire animal in its...
In its original state. They would've packaged it up to take it along
with 'em wherever they're going.
[Gibson] The other thing that was important when we were writing
was to create, I guess,
an expected thing of what might one think of as...
As primitives on a hunt and then to totally sort of go against the mood
of what one would expect and turn it into a practical joke.
[Safinia] Right, particularly in how they speak to each other.
We wanted to stay clear of that thing you see in films all the time
with the whole honor and speech stuff, you know.
This was, uh, very much colloquial and friendly.
[Gibson] Making the guy eat the tapir's balls.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] It's a big joke. It's...
I guess it's their version of television, you know.
What was that show where they eat horrible things? Fear Factor?
[Safinia] Fear Factor, yeah. This is Fear Factor circa 1502.
- [Gibson] Yeah. Mayan Fear Factor. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Mmm. - [Safinia laughs]
- [Gibson] That gets me. Oh! - [Safinia] Me too. It's the squirt.
[Gibson] I gotta say.
- [Gagging] - [Laughter]
[Safinia] He was so good at that.
[Gibson] Every time he gags, it cracks me up.
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] It's like a bear.
[Safinia] One of the things that's amazing is how everything's matched
because we shot this sequence over many, many days.
And Dean's going hard at work here trying to make...
Because the forest, the light's changing all the time.
And you have the sunny hot spots and the sort of darker spots,
and he's making it match into one sequence. It's well done.
[Gibson] Yeah. Well, those guys with those big scrims,
Goose and those guys, they were dragging scrims all over the place
to block light. So it was very time-consuming.
'Cause where the light was coming from was always very definite.
[Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] But if you don't notice it, that's OK.
- [Safinia] That's right. - [Gibson laughs]
- Beautiful sometimes. - [Safinia] Amazing. These shots...
[Gibson] Backlit. Beautiful stuff.
This is Genesis at its best sometimes 'cause of the way the light looks
in the background.
[Gibson] Probably a lot of this was getting dark.
- [Safinia] Yeah. Yeah. - [Gibson] But look how it just pops.
'Cause it shows you the sensitivity to light that the stuff has,
- and it doesn't blow it out. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] I mean, even behind his head there.
That's good. I mean, that was almost full sun backlight coming in.
[Safinia] Mm-hm.
[Gibson] Both these guys are... They're from the same tribe in Canada.
- [Safinia] Yes, the Cree Nation, yeah. - [Gibson] From the Cree Nation.
Rudy and Raoul come from further south. They're Native Americans.
But the rest of the cast were Mezzo-Americans or from Mexico
- or Guatemala or from Central America. - [Safinia] Right.
[Safinia] I love what Morris is doing here. He's...
Once you've seen the film and you know what he's up to...
- [Gibson] He's just a beast. - [Safinia] He's funny.
The looks in his eyes are just priceless.
- [Gibson] You see him laughing... - [laughing]
[Gibson] "I can't believe he believes this."
[Safinia] Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[Safinia] This part, giving him more leaves,
you came up with that on the day. It's just hilarious.
[Safinia] Do you remember how that meat smelled so bad on the set, yeah.
- [Gibson] It was starting to get old. - [Safinia] Yeah, it was. [laughs]
[Gibson] I don't even know what it was. I don't wanna know.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] It was important that this character be singled out at this point
as someone a little more aware or more sensitive to things than the others.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] That's why he survives, in a sense, is that he's just
a little ahead of the game. For some reason he has a sixth sense.
[Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] That's what sets him apart.
[Safinia] And also apart from us, the viewing audience,
because we can't see what he sees.
- [Gibson] No. - [Safinia] And...
It's that he's got something else going on.
[Gibson] So as he sees it, none of us can.
It doesn't seem like the others can either,
- but we don't go into that. - [Safinia] Right.
[Gibson] And that was intentional. He's talking to something that we can't see,
so he sees it before we do.
[Safinia] I'm so glad this worked for real.
Because I remember you talking
- about doing it with computer help. - [Gibson] Morphing.
[Safinia] But it worked. We put the guys out there, and they just moved it
a little to the left, a little to the right, suddenly they disappeared.
[Gibson] They couldn't see. You couldn't see till they moved. It's pretty scary.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Ah, Hiram, cast for his startled appearance.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] He's got this look of being afraid.
- [Safinia] True. - [Gibson] Did it well.
He's got really big eyes and he looks like he's missed a few meals.
- The fear being contagious. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] It makes him reach for darts,
'cause the guy's acting weird 'cause he's afraid.
[Safinia] You told him to behave like he's the walking dead. Remember that?
[Gibson] Yeah, I told him to... he's dead.
He just doesn't know it yet. Or he knows it, but he doesn't.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] "Be a victim."
[Gibson laughs]
He's like, "What are doing looking at my refrigerator?"
- It's like... - [both laugh]
- [Gibson] "Yeah, nice waters, yeah." - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Yeah. [laughs]
- "Two weeks, you're staying? Two?" - [Safinia] Yeah, exactly.
- [Gibson laughs] - [Safinia] And he goes, "Go then."
- [Gibson] "Get outta here." - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Laughter]
[Gibson] Start catching a man's fish, he gets sensitive.
[Safinia] Yeah.
I think one thing that we forget here is how amazing the makeup job is.
[Gibson] Oh, look at this. Every aspect of these guys...
[Safinia] It looks so real. You don't notice it,
because you buy in immediately, on...
And these people here, these are all background extras, ostensibly.
- They're done up so... - [Gibson] From the town of Catemaco.
[Safinia] Right, the local town where we were shooting this,
- in this forest nearby. - [Gibson] That guy looks kinda like...
He's just kinda staring in the bushes. I'll show you.
He comes back again later. He knew something like seven languages.
- Remember that cat? - [Safinia] I do, yes.
[Gibson] He'd been to college, and he was a brilliant guy.
And he looks like, you know, he looks like the village idiot.
[Safinia] This was the day that snake had wrapped itself...
Yeah, that guy. The snake had wrapped itself around that young boy's foot.
- Remember, it was... - [Gibson] That's right.
I swear it's the only cold day of the year that ever happened there.
- [Safinia] It was freezing. - [Gibson] It was so cold.
And I guess the snake, for warmth's sake, wrapped itself around
a four-year-old's leg and had to be pried loose. But it was a fer-de-lance.
[Safinia] Deadliest snake in the forest.
[Gibson] Incidentally, the little kid that the snake wrapped around his leg,
he lived.
No, the snake never even bit him. The wrangler was there.
They were able to use their expertise to extract the snake,
who was really trying to stay warm off this little four-year-old's leg.
I don't know how he let it get there.
He was probably talking to it for five minutes, but it was all a happy ending.
All these guys, I found all these actors and performers,
they worked as artisans or painters, or some of them were dancers.
They worked as artisans or painters, or some of them were dancers.
Some of them worked in the circus.
[Safinia] A lot of the people in that forest shot
and now in the village you'll see had never seen a film.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] Which was amazing
because they were suddenly so able to perform and act and dramatize things.
[Gibson] All the people in that village, and that was a function of really just
talking to them and making them feel relaxed, I think, and just say,
"Go about your business. Have something to do."
[Safinia] This tree they're leaning against, it's come crashing down.
This tree nearly took half of our crew with it.
'Cause it was standing when we first built the set. There was a huge storm.
- [Gibson] And it keeled over. - [Safinia] Yeah, it keeled over.
Tom Sanders made it part of the set,
made a great entrance to the village for us with it.
[Gibson] "The concept of fear is the biggest enemy."
[Safinia] I love the way he says this.
I actually love the way the words sound in this speech.
[Gibson] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Just a couple of bums. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] That always made me laugh.
After he gives this "fear about" speech he tries to frighten all the kids.
[Both laugh]
- [Safinia] The great Isabel. - [Gibson] Yes. Isabel.
- And where did she come from? - [Safinia] I don't know. Where did?
[Gibson] You're heard all sorts of stories that she was on the street...
[Safinia] I think she's a grand dame of the theater down there in Mexico.
[Gibson] She is?
- I don't know. - [Safinia laughs]
- [Safinia] But she had this going on. - [Gibson] This kind of madness.
That was what it was, that moment there.
[Safinia] You saw that in the room, and you said, "That's it.
- I don't wanna see anyone else." - [Gibson] The harridan mother-in-law.
- A cliché if you like, but... - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] And she does it well.
[Gibson laughs]
[Safinia] It's amazing how many characters you get to know in this film,
- in the first half hour. - [Gibson] Yeah.
- [Safinia] So many. - [Gibson] It has to be clear.
That's why I think casting according to type
or archetype even was very...
- I'd pointedly did so, you know. - [Safinia] Mm-hm.
[Gibson] You know, the sage father, the cute son.
- [Safinia] Right. - [Gibson] Furry monkey.
[Both laugh]
[Gibson] The archetypal sort of hero, you know.
The guy who's got kind of childlike
sort of heroism in his eyes and sort of innocent in a way, but...
So it was important to us to have those types.
Particularly when you're dealing with a culture so far away
in another language, they had to be clear.
[Safinia] Yes.
And it's... Quick thing to say about the set dressing,
one of the things that sold this whole thing was
every corner you look, you see little details.
- [Gibson] Something. - [Safinia] They did an amazing job,
Tom's team.
[Gibson] The forest was beautiful, but they've just adorned it
with this little abode, this village.
And there are villages built more primitively than this still today.
[Safinia] Existing in the Yucatán and Chiapas and parts of Mexico
that we, in fact, found some of our cast from there.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] Do you remember he couldn't stand being upside down for longer
- than about a few seconds. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] It would frighten him. So we had to be very careful with him on that.
[Gibson] Look at that makeup job. I mean, the prosthetic pregnant belly.
- I mean, it's seamless. - [Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
[Moaning]
- [Gibson] Payoff time. - [Safinia laughs]
[Both laugh]
[Safinia] Now, nobody knew about the joke
that you were playing here with her, with his wife.
Um, and when the crew saw this...
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] This?
They laughed their heads off.
[Safinia] 'Cause they didn't know. Mel kept it a secret from almost everybody.
[Gibson] I filmed her. I said, "Start drinking the..."
[Safinia] Yeah, yeah. And they couldn't believe that...
There we go. [laughs]
Do you remember how dark it was? It was night almost.
- [Gibson] Testament to Genesis. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] I said, "Dean, it's dark. We can't shoot."
He says, "Right, mate. Give it a whirl."
- [Safinia] Yeah, yeah. - [Gibson] And he's...
- [Safinia] Jonathan's just so... - [Gibson] Laugh, cry, laugh, cry.
[Both laughing]
[Safinia] These shots are from Costa Rica,
these big sort of forest-scapes that we see.
- It's a beautiful country there. - [Gibson] It is. Stunning.
If you want those big vistas, you know, and mountains and...
We had another crew off in Costa Rica
- just shooting beautiful things. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Sunsets, sunrises, rain.
[Safinia] This speech, um, that the old storyteller is telling,
we found this.
This was an old Mayan tale
called The Myth of the Man's Sadness.
And we took what was there and changed it a little bit
- to bring it up to date. - [Gibson] We modified it.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] He's a real storyteller,
a Mayan who is really missing an arm there.
Some kind of industrial accident when he was a young man.
[Safinia] These are the scenes?
These are the ones where there is literally no other source of light
- except for the fire? - [Gibson] Yeah.
- Amazing. - [Gibson] Look at that! Wow.
Amazing. Dean was so excited when we saw this, how it looked...
...and how the flames looked fluid almost.
Because you could open the shutter, so the blur effect
- on the movement of the flames. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] He had a kind of a black nose ring, but it made him look like
he had a Charlie Chaplin look. I had to change it to white.
- It was like... I said, yeah... - [Safinia laughs]
- [Safinia] Like a mustache. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] I love this sequence where the camera's literally moving all the time.
- [Gibson] Did it ever stop? - [Safinia] No, it didn't, not once.
- Not in quiet scenes. - [Safinia] Slightest movements.
[Gibson] If it did, it would seem weird. I think we did a few takes.
Just be stock still just for the effect of being still.
But even then there was usually someone moving in that shot.
[Safinia] I remember that night. You got everybody to dance in this scene.
And the entire village was dancing and dancing on the first take.
And when they stopped, the crew standing around watching erupted into applause
because they were so taken in by the energy of the whole thing.
It was just such a magical moment for everybody. We just all clapped.
[Gibson] Everybody wanted to dance.
[Safinia] You got in the middle of the thing, but...
[Gibson] I was running around like a lunatic.
[Gibson] We basically started off with a very choreographed structure with people
with functions and prosthetic makeup.
[Safinia] Yep. Amazing.
[Gibson] Huh.
[Safinia] He was sound asleep, the kid. Dead to the world at that point.
[Animal screeches]
[Gibson] It's amazing, the leeway you get with Genesis
- and with digital timing too. - [Safinia] Right.
[Gibson] You can make it virtually any time of the day or night almost.
It's not just a matter of a couple of stops in this direction
or that direction anymore, but now it's virtually anything you want.
- [Heart beats] - [Dog barks]
- Dreams are important, you think? - [Safinia] Very.
- They tell you something. - [Gibson] Yes, like, "Hey, run."
[Safinia laughs]
[Panting]
[Gibson] Hmm. Guy's got a lot of heart.
[Safinia] He's... [laughs] That's a great makeup job too.
- [Gibson] It is, yeah. - [Safinia] It's just amazing.
[Gibson] I mean, that thing actually looks like a dog, didn't it?
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] Great makeup job.
[Dog barks]
[Groans]
[Gibson] I love this little kid's hand that slaps over.
[Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
You had to increase the sound on that 'cause you really wanted it heard.
- [Gibson] Yes. He slaps her... - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Just when you thought you were in Happy Valley...
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson]... comes a man with human jaws on his arm.
[Safinia] Hmm.
[Gibson] You think he'll be nice? He's not the Fuller Brush man.
[Safinia] No. He's not the bearer of glad tidings.
It was so amazing to see these guys the first day they came on set,
- quite a way into the shoot. - [Gibson] Frightening.
I mean, they're the scariest looking dudes I've ever seen.
I remember when we showed the film to the distributors at Disney.
They were like, "These are the scariest guys ever."
And it helps that you never saw any of them before.
[Safinia] True. You have no idea what...
[Gibson] Raoul there, you've seen him before. He was in films and TV.
[Safinia] He was in The New World before this.
[Gibson] He was, yeah. But we actually gave him a prosthetic nose.
- [Safinia] Right. - [Gibson] He was aquiline-featured,
and we thought to make him more Mayan-looking, à la the murals,
we thought it was good to give him more of a proboscis.
This kid was in good shape, I have to admit.
- [Safinia] He was. - [Gibson] He's a real athlete,
and that's what really...
It was down to a couple, but this guy moved like an animal when he moved.
He had to do a lot of moving in this. [laughs]
[Screaming]
All the stunt guys are Mexican stunts guys.
[Safinia] They are.
[Gibson] What did Frank do? A lawyer or something?
[Safinia] No, I don't, uh...
[Gibson] We called this guy Frank Sinatra.
Because if you look at him, he looks like young Frank Sinatra.
[Safinia] He does.
[Gibson] And somebody ties you. And it's like...
[Safinia] The visual effects here, the special effects,
the ones done on set, the fire,
was done by local Mexican crews as well, and they did a really...
[both] Chucho Duran.
[Gibson] He's a legend down there. On-site special effects man.
[Safinia] It was raining so hard the day...
[Gibson] That day. Oh, man. You'd have to find stuff to do indoors, you know.
It's supposed to be outdoors, but since it was raining...
[both laugh]
[Screaming]
- [Gibson] Uh, that's good. - [Safinia] Yeah.
And here's Blunted.
[Gibson] Yep. Maybe he can't father children, but he can kick ass.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Both laugh]
[Safinia] This was a wonderful combination.
You can talk to it, I guess, more than I can, about how the...
...combining the exterior set and the interior set. You can't even tell.
[Gibson] You can't. 'Cause that hole there was indoors.
[Safinia] Yeah. Yet everything from the outside was shot obviously
- in the village set. - [Gibson] Yeah.
So you had to both up and down, both in the pers...
You know, the synthetic set
and the real one.
- And they match perfectly. - [Safinia] Perfectly.
[Safinia] The music is really good in this sequence, I think.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] It keeps your blood pumping.
- [Gibson] Ugh. This is hard. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] There used to be more of that scene, but I didn't... I got out of it.
[Safinia] Yes.
[Safinia] This is one of the sequences I am so glad it worked the way you...
- Remember during writing it, it? - [Gibson] Yeah. Yeah.
- Oop. - [Safinia] You shot so many different
- angles to make this work. - [Gibson] Ugh. Yeah.
Bang, feet up on the...
[Safinia] Feet on the wall, inside, outside, close shots on this guy.
Him coming in POV, that, I mean, it's just, the combination is huge.
And she hits the ground. And these were ridiculous. Remember?
[Gibson] You don't know whether they're gonna work.
[Safinia] You didn't know, and then they work so great.
[Gibson] It's amazing, you know, a lot of these actors and, you know,
they did a lot of their own kind of physical work.
This guy here, Javier, hanging upside down.
That's tough to hang upside down all day, do all this stuff.
You drag him up now and then, so his head wouldn't explode, but...
And then to take all the the fake hits with the rubber club and...
- [Gibson laughs] Desperation. - [Safinia] Hmm.
[Gibson] This girl gave it everything, man.
- [Safinia] She did, out of nowhere. - [Gibson] Yeah, she was...
She didn't have any dialogue or anything. She was just, you know...
But she really gave it everything,
Screaming, I mean, you know.
- [Gibson] That was Mrs. Sinatra. - [Safinia] Yes.
[Safinia] Yeah.
See the nets here and the clubs that can be used on both sides.
These were designed specifically to capture these guys,
and Simon Atherton put a lot of work into figuring out what kinds of weaponry
would be used actually to subdue people and capture them,
as opposed to necessarily kill them. Or if they got in your way...
[Gibson] One of my favorites is coming up. It's like a hook thing
that you can just choke somebody out with and not necessarily kill 'em.
The other thing like that hook that goes through the wall of the hut
and drags the guy right through the wall.
That was Simon, came up, "Pull him right through the walls."
That's great, you know.
- [Safinia] This is all Rudy... - [Gibson] Yeah.
No, these guys, they did their own stuff, man. They're tough boys, yeah.
- [Safinia] Rolling around... - [Gibson] Head butts. They look real.
[Safinia] I love these drumbeats. They're so good.
[Gibson] That screamed out for percussion.
[Safinia] It did, yeah.
[Gibson] That's the choke-out weapon. It's like two things combined. Oop.
- [Both laugh] - [Gibson] Had many uses.
[Safinia] This cracked us up, Raoul's look here.
- [Gibson] The tantrum. - [Safinia] Then...
[Gibson] It's like, "That's my boy." "What?"
- That tells you a lot. - [Safinia] It does.
It's true character stuff, this, establishing who these guys are
in relation to each other and who they are in themselves, yeah.
[Gibson] He's like a spoiled child that has to obey, but he doesn't like it.
- [Safinia] He will break the rules. - [Gibson] He's seriously troubled.
[Safinia] Gerardo Taracena is one of the best actors they have
- south of the border. He's... - [Gibson] This guy? Yeah.
Oh, he plays a lunatic great. Look at this.
[Safinia] Amazing, but the face and the way he uses it, you know.
[Gibson] I don't know why, he reminds me of Robert Duvall.
I know he doesn't really look like him, but he just reminds me of...
[Safinia] It's that off thing, playing it off a little bit, and it's...
- [Gibson] Almost anemic. - [Safinia] And his tone is so flip,
just not... disregard for the moment itself.
- [Gibson] I love this look on Morris. - [Safinia] Yes.
- [Gibson] Next look. That one. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Amazing. - [Safinia] It is.
[Gibson] It's like four things happening right there.
[Safinia] Stay well away from it.
[Gibson] Yeah. I love that, going way wide for that.
- He's standing. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Like, really, it's cool.
[Safinia] It's the only way to do it really.
- [Gibson] It was cool. - [Safinia] Only good way.
[Safinia] And this is the voice of Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, yeah?
- [Gibson] That's his nephew. - [Safinia] Yeah, Rahat...
- Rahat, yeah. - [Gibson] Rahat, yeah.
[Safinia] And he is a great Pakistani vocalist.
[Gibson] Yeah.
And it's not just... It's years, this stuff.
[Safinia] Hours of practice every day to keep that voice tuned.
[Gibson] Before he could record.
He'd sit there for ten minutes and warm up... or longer.
Half an hour sometimes.
[Wailing, chattering]
[Gibson] Jonathan was great here.
His heart's so out there with what he does. He's just so raw.
[Safinia] With everything, with everything he does, yeah.
[Gibson] Really vulnerable. The big vulnerable guy. He's really like that.
[Safinia] In fact, this scene works because of him.
Not because of what's happening here. It's because what's going on with him.
[Gibson] But his compassion and his...
- But Rudy too. - [Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
[Gibson] You know, the sadness of everything.
[Screaming]
[Safinia] It was rough shooting this stuff.
[Gibson] Yeah, I know. It was hard to do.
[Crying, sobbing]
- [Gibson] Aw, poor little fellow. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] I think he was hungry.
[Safinia] He had ice cream. He wanted ice cream.
- [Gibson] He got up early. - [Safinia] That's Mayra Serbulo.
[Gibson] Mayra Serbulo. Beautiful actress. Really. She's really great.
- She's from Oaxaca. - [Safinia] Oaxaca, that's right.
She's from the Zapotec extraction.
[Safinia] This shot, I wanna point it out
because of how the next one, about how you can tell a story with one shot.
- You start behind the beam. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] And you follow this guy through to the other side here.
It's... There we go. It's...
[Gibson] Thank goodness for Technocrane.
[Safinia] Exactly. It really tells you a lot in one shot.
[Safinia] Rodolfo Palacios, who plays Snake Ink, had to spend something like
six hours a day in makeup just to apply all those tattoos
and scars on his body.
[Gibson] Scarifications to make it look like he's snakeskin.
[Gibson] Timing. [Laughs] The kid's great here.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] It's interesting. I'm just looking at Rodolfo here.
He was fit... he was a pretty fit guy.
- [Safinia] That's true, yeah. - [Gibson] But a lot of the cast...
- [Safinia] Soft. - [Gibson] They had
- a little 20th century blubber on 'em. [Safinia] That's true.
[Gibson] We put them on special diets of more hard foods like meat
and vegetables and just more natural stuff, and they all leaned out
- and got muscular and more angular. - [Safinia] Yeah.
They all looked good in the end.
They were happy with the bodies they got.
- [Gibson] They were like, "Look at me." - [Safinia laughs] Yeah.
[Gibson] 'Cause Raoul, the main Holcane here,
the guy with the headgear, the scary-looking guy...
- [Safinia] Here he is. - [Gibson] He's in good shape,
- and he's not a youngster. - [Safinia] No, he's not.
[Gibson] Think he dropped about 30 pounds and really got tight, you know.
[Safinia] We made him run around a lot.
[Gibson] Yeah, running.
[Safinia] Joints, complaining about his knees.
He said, "Please." [laughs]
But he did a great job running around like that.
Trying to keep up with Rudy was no easy task.
[Gibson] Kidding me? You can't.
I got one of these guys when we were just talking to 'em.
I said, "OK, I'll take you out in the parking lot and have a race with you."
Kid's like 20 years old.
And, uh... I mean, I used to be pretty fast.
And I thought, "Yeah, I'll probably beat the kid."
- He smoked me. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] He was so fast.
Think I gave him the part just 'cause he could run like a deer.
[Gibson laughs] Some of these shots. I love the movement coming over...
[Safinia] It's huge, and the fire's in the background.
[Gibson] There's a lot going on, a lot of elements, a lot of elements.
[Safinia] One thing people don't realize when they watch films
is the amount of work required to run a set and the AD crew.
[Gibson] Adrian.
[Safinia] The AD crew is, like, really the unsung heroes of any film
- of this scale and size. - [Gibson] You don't see 'em.
They're constantly at it. I think I said it at...
When the screening happened, I spotted Adrian's bald head in the dark.
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] I said, "Adrian Grunberg,
- hardest working man in Mexico." - [Safinia] Absolutely.
[Gibson] Gotta be true. Never see anybody put so much into it.
That guy was flat-out...
[Safinia] Every single thing we're looking at, in terms of
where people are, what the fires are doing, what...
He's gotta run all that and make it happen at the right time.
- And it's a tough job. - [Gibson] It's like, "More people."
- "OK." Go and get some more people. - [Safinia laughs] Yeah. Yeah.
- [Gibson] I love this shot. - [Safinia] Yeah. She's alone.
[Gibson whispers] The horror is sinking in.
Great the way you just catch her eyes at the bottom there.
- [Gibson] Which is the word for "ma." - [Safinia laughs]
- [Gibson] "Na" means "ma." - [Gibson] Remarkable.
- [Gibson] And "ma" means "no." - [Safinia] That's right. Exactly.
[Gibson] So to say, "No, mother," you say, "Na, ma."
- [Safinia] "Na, ma." - [Gibson] Or, "Ma, na."
[Safinia] That's the kid who smoked you in the parking...
[Gibson] The guy who killed me in a footrace.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] Incredible athlete, this kid.
Nineteen, he just... I think he was...
Worked with a dance troupe or something.
I say, "Come join us."
And he had a very good natural ability with intention with a camera.
It's really nice.
- Oop, there he is, terrified as always. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Like Lee Marvin there. - [Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] These shots are amazing. That's the jungle in Catemaco.
[Gibson] Yeah. And Technocrane, being able to just come down on that.
You couldn't use the whole shot, because it just takes too long.
But, you know, it's a shame.
[Safinia] You chose this jungle because...
Because you could... It is so thick and lush,
- yet you can see so far. - [Gibson] Into it.
[Safinia] You couldn't in other countries.
In Costa Rica, you can't see as deep as this.
[Gibson] As deep, yeah, and you needed to have depth of field,
and to be able to see things. But that said,
I have to say that the greens department were amazing.
[Safinia] Unbelievable. They are hard-working.
[Gibson] Man, they never stopped. And this kid here, wow, amazing.
- [Safinia] This girl. - [Gibson] Lorena. I was impressed.
She's 11 years old and she lived in Catemaco, you know,
the farmer's daughter, whatever, and had just...
Was just perfectly honest in front of the camera.
- [Safinia] And so beautiful. - [Gibson] Oh, yeah.
She's one of the faces that reminded me of those frozen kids
they found on the mountain... Where was this?
Where did they find 'em? Somewhere in Asia. I can't remember.
- Like near Tibet or something. - [Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
[Safinia] This scene always makes me think of how truly subtle and great
Gerardo is as Middle Eye.
[Gibson] Yeah. Even sorta, like, gags. Oh!
"Look, the poor guy's hurt. Quick."
- Has a drink himself. I mean... - [Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] And Rudy's doing a great job too.
[Gibson] They all are. This guy, out of drama school.
- [Safinia] Israel. - [Gibson] Yeah. From drama school.
There's two Israels on the post, the one down and the one in front of Rudy.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] You call one of 'em, and they both turn up.
[Safinia] They'd both turn and look at you. [laughs]
[Gibson] So we had to find other names for 'em.
- Cocoa. - [Safinia] Cocoa Leaf.
- [Gibson] Cocoa and Smoky. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Groaning]
- [Gibson] Love it. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Technocrane again. Look at this shot. Great.
- [Safinia] And again, the music. - [Gibson] Yeah.
- The river wasn't as rough as it looks. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] We roughed it up. I put some boulders in there
to make it spill, crash a bit.
And we dug a trench so that it would appear deeper.
[Safinia] Right. There's a safety line.
- [Gibson] Everyone's got a safety line. - [Safinia] Just to make sure.
[Gibson] But it looks, uh, looks pretty rugged.
- [Gibson] So great, this actress. - [Safinia] I just love her.
You ought to make every film you ever make with her in it.
[Gibson] I know. It's funny. So dignified too.
[Safinia] Yeah, she really is. And look at that shot.
- [Gibson] Yeah... - [Safinia] Cliff in the background.
- [Gibson] Costa Rica once again. - [Safinia] Yes.
[Gibson] I believe that's the faker hole.
[Both laugh]
[Gibson] This wasn't in the script.
[Safinia] No, you came up with this just the day before
we were going to shoot it.
You said, "You know, I think they do this thing with..."
- [Gibson] Ants. - [Safinia] To suture wounds, yeah.
- Soldier ants. - [Safinia] We looked it up.
They used to do it...
As far back as ancient Egypt they actually used to use various forms
of army ants, 'cause the ant would clamp down shut around the wound.
And you just cut its head off, and you'd have a suture right there.
- Hmm. - [Safinia] And...
[Gibson] Mezzo-American natives still do.
- [Safinia] Right. - [Gibson] Some.
[Safinia] In the Amazon too.
- He's wonderful. - [Gibson] The kid.
- [Safinia] Carlos. - [Gibson] Four years old, yeah.
- [Safinia] Carlito. Yeah, he'd... - [Safinia laughs]
- [Gibson] Look at that. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Yeah.
I said, "Don't cry, but you don't like it. Be brave."
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson laughs]
[Gibson] Oof. Boy, this was hot.
- [Safinia] This was hot. - [Gibson] 135 degrees.
- [Safinia] That wall behind them... - [Gibson] Like an oven, cooking.
- [Safinia] Cooking. - [Gibson] These guys.
Even these guys, with their wonderful sorta brown complexions,
- even they got sunburned. - [Safinia] They did. You can see it
on a couple of them.
[Safinia] We should make a quick mention here of Ted Rae's job
because this scene is one in which a lot of these guys
are wearing wires so that they wouldn't fall over.
And, um, a lot of the special effects done in this film
were to remove wires and things like that. And you just...
It's so seamless if you look at it now, that, you know,
he and his team did a really wonderful job with that.
[Gibson] Yeah, all the falls, all the dangling over a high spot.
All safe. Looks precarious. That's good.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Laughter]
[Safinia] In case you didn't know Middle Eye was crazy, here he is again.
[Gibson] Yeah. He's a sociopath. It's Frank Sinatra.
[Safinia laughs]
That makes me laugh.
[Gibson] I know.
[Screaming]
[Safinia] I remember you were telling Gerardo to look at this
as though a beautiful daisy was flowering in the spring.
- That was your direction to him. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Gibson] At his handiwork after he pushed the guy off?
Yeah, look at that flower.
- [Safinia] Oh. - [Gibson] It's nice. Ugh.
[Panting]
[Safinia] Deeply troubled.
[Gibson] That wasn't as good as I thought.
[Safinia] Exactly
[Gibson] It's like, "Oh, well, next episode."
[Gibson] Oop, the dad's here.
- [Gibson] Pauses were important. - [Safinia] Mm-hm.
[Safinia laughs] Just great.
[Safinia laughs] Most of it is not speaking, you know.
[Gibson] It's just looking at him. He's like boring holes. I love it.
[Safinia] The knife.
That's the first time you see that knife.
- [Gibson] It's not. - [Safinia] Saw it in the village?
[Gibson] Yeah. I think he sliced and diced somebody there.
[Safinia] He does, yes.
- [Gibson] So you know he's handy. - [Safinia] Knows how to use it.
I love the way you didn't put a subtitle on that. It's not necessary.
Everybody knows what he's saying when he goes, "No."
- [Gibson] He threw that one in extra. - [Safinia] Yeah, he did.
[Groaning, straining]
[Woman singing]
- [Gibson] Miriam's lullaby. - [Safinia] Hmm.
[Safinia] This is an old... It's an old Zapotecan lullaby that we translated
into Yucatec Mayan and goes...
It's a very, very old lullaby.
Something about how the kids will play when the parents are away or something.
[Woman continues singing]
[Gibson] That guy talking is named Richard Can.
He's from... Is he from the Yucatan?
- [Safinia] He is, yes. - [Gibson] He speaks fluent Yucatec
and is a kindergarten teacher, and he looks vicious.
[Safinia] Very vicious, yeah. Very nice guy though.
- [Gibson] Hell. - [Safinia laughs]
- He's not vicious at all. - [Gibson] Oh. Mr. Can?
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Safinia] I remember the makeup artists were having all sorts of trouble
because the prosthetic part of the ears of these characters
didn't have blood, obviously.
So when the firelight's shining behind it you couldn't see any red.
So they actually had to put fake red pigments in these ears
to make them look real. That's the level of detail
to which they went to make everything look so real.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] You could get busted, Farhad.
[Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] This is another one of those great moments with Jonathan.
[Gibson] Yeah, I love the profile shot and the flames.
[Safinia] It's so beautifully lit, and all by fire.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Gibson] It's kinda like the end of act one.
[Safinia] Yeah, I know. It is.
And it's so great how you immediately go into this new setup, you know,
this new environment.
[Gibson] And devastation of the landscape.
You say, "How come there's no trees?"
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] You go, "Oh, this is why."
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] A big setup this one, the special effects guys.
- [Safinia] They built that tree, yeah. - [Gibson] Whew. Yeah. It's a...
[Safinia] Real.
[Gibson] Something on a hinge they could drop. Amazing. Impactful.
[Safinia] I think what you were willing to go with here,
in terms of telling the story visually, what they were doing to themselves
from a industrial perspective and... is really great.
Because you never really stop.
Nobody ever stops to really explain anything in terms of exposition.
You're just watching a series of visuals
that tell you a story of what they were up to, you know,
- what they were doing. - [Gibson] You get land,
and then you get people affected by it. They're ill.
They have lesions for some reason.
They were... And there were periods during Maya,
sort of rise and fall of their civilizations
in which disease would come and be one of the factors that eventually would
precipitate the downfall. Um... Who knows where these came from?
It could be from a combination of bad malnourishment or lack of food,
- hygiene. - [Gibson] Hygiene. All sorts of stuff.
This little kid was amazing. She's a little girl from the Yucatec.
She only spoke Mayan.
She came from a very primitive village. Very sweet kid.
- [Safinia] Seven years old. - [Gibson] I chose her,
because, look at her. I mean, just look at her.
She's like an old soul. She's seven years old, but she's like an old soul.
She used to have
millennium of knowledge back there. It's like kinda spooky.
- [Safinia] Brave girl. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] Didn't know about filmmaking...
- [Gibson] Anything. - [Safinia]... had never seen a floor
- and a car or a road or anything. - [Gibson] Or an ice cream.
[Safinia] And here she was and doing all this stuff.
Now this sequence with the prophecy,
this is actually something that was very true to research that we did
that came from the Popul Vuh and other sources.
The Mayans, as a people, were very much obsessed almost
with predicting and prophesizing
the rise and the fall of their times. And who knows?
Once you become so obsessed with something prophetic,
whether it's self-fulfilling or whether it's genuinely
a prophecy of the future.
But she gives 'em a few clues as to what the countdown is
from a mythic perspective.
[Gibson] And I always thought that because she was so close to death
and that they were leaving her out there to die...
...that she had some kind of link to the beyond.
- It's spooky. - [Safinia] You asked her...
You really tried very hard, even though she was only seven,
to get her to switch into a different mode here as she said these lines,
as opposed to just being a regular kid crying, you know.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] And they're a little worried.
[Gibson] Yeah, I'd leave too. I mean, that is disturbing.
- [Safinia] Back away. - [Both laugh]
[Gibson] That someone so little could, you know, speak to them like that.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] They were very superstitious, and they would have...
[Safinia] They would have believed that and looked for those signs then.
[Gibson] Even if they didn't believe it wholly, they'd be disturbed by it.
- [Safinia] Would be, yes. - [Gibson laughs]
- Ah, yes, the lime quarry. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] The logs from trees that get chopped.
[Safinia] Right. This is visual storytelling
that we just saw these trees being cut and burnt down.
And what are they doing with the wood?
[Gibson] They're heating up a bunch of rocks...
...so that they can pulverize it. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] Turn it into white powder which they cart
into their cities and make a slurry of.
[Safinia] Now this is all a real set. This is all completely built.
- This was my favorite set. - [Gibson] Beautiful, yeah.
[Safinia] Just the way they constructed this to make it feel
- like you have... - [Gibson] Nothing.
[Safinia]... devastation right into the horizon.
[Gibson] And with the deforestation, of course,
the rains would come and wash the topsoil.
- [Safinia] That's right. - [Gibson] The clay and less desirable
kind of growing stuff would run off into the arability of their fields
and start to make their crops not yield, be unhealthy.
[Safinia] Because this earth here at the...
Was so thin, everything would run out.
[Gibson] Yeah, and all to build the temples bigger.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] They burned trees to heat rocks to pulverize
to make the temples big, kill their crops, everyone would get diseases.
[Safinia] Here's that sediment washing
into their fields, crops.
And almost instantly, you see the famine that's associated with that.
- [Gibson] There are wonderful faces. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Safinia] This was historically genuinely the way that these cities
were in that the remnants of them that we have today
are these large stone edifices.
But at the time, at their height, they had huts...
[Gibson] All sorts of peripheral stuff.
[Safinia] And shanty towns all over the outskirts
and the poor trying to survive on the outskirts and the edges.
[Gibson] Abel, one of the famous character actors in Mexico.
When I met him he was a robust man, and by the time we wanted to film him,
he was... He had very short time to live.
But he wanted, with everything he had, to do this part.
[Safinia] Here they are moving closer and closer to the heart of the city.
- [Gibson] Getting more prosperous. - [Safinia] You can see
a little more trade going on, a little more of the industry
that we know they had.
[Gibson] There was a scene, in that last scene where there was nothing,
except for there was this one green plant that a guy was watering,
which I thought was... I just thought it was hilarious.
[Safinia] Right. I remember.
[Gibson] You only see it for a second.
[Safinia] And this is where Tom Sanders' set really is shining,
because the depth of the set, you could shoot in any direction you wanted, yeah.
[Gibson] And it just kept going. There was industry.
It had meaning and a purpose. There were districts,
like this is the garment district. And it was like that.
It was really amazing.
And these are just some people from Veracruz that you find.
They're just... Look at them.
These extras, they're beautiful, and they really...
- They really put out emotionally. - [Safinia] Right.
[Safinia] The dyers, the dye makers, and...
- [Gibson] The goat head corner. - [Safinia] Right. And I love...
I love the little vignettes you put in here with, you know,
telling a little story here and there all the time
about the kind of environment we're in, where things aren't quite so good.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] This is the end point for the lime powder that they've been carrying
- from the quarry. - [Gibson] You see what they do.
[Safinia] They're applying to palaces and temples.
[Gibson] It was used as flooring and roads...
[Safinia] Right. They covered roads with feet deep thick of lime plaster.
[Gibson] Conspicuous consumption.
[Safinia] Do you remember the choosing of this pigment?
The makeup team came to you and said... They gave you three choices
- for the blue that... - [Gibson] Four.
[Safinia] Right.
[Gibson] They said, "Which one do you like?" And I said, "That one."
[Safinia] It was the one.
[Gibson] That was the pigment, the shade that they had used.
[Safinia] Actually used. Yeah, they used to coat
the sacrificial victims in this particular shade of blue
to earmark them for that purpose.
[Gibson] Whew, boy, remember how hot this place was?
[Safinia] What's remarkable here in these sequences
is there isn't one false image anywhere, or false visual.
All the extras, as deep, as far as back you can go in the background
have the right makeup, the right prosthetics,
the right clothing to really sell this to you.
And that's an enormous job.
The makeup teams, during these sequences, had to start literally
at midnight every day, so that by 8:00,
when we were going to shoot, they had enough people ready to go
with all the right kind of...
[Gibson] The makeup team was like 300, 400 strong sometimes,
many of them students from Mexico City.
- [Safinia] Many students. - [Gibson] Wonderful work.
They'll never work on a show with this makeup again.
[Safinia] Never, no.
Because it was more just the sheer will to do this.
[Gibson] My hat's off to those guys. They worked harder than...
Whew, look at this. Scarification on the foreheads. Unbelievable stuff.
[Safinia] Jade jewelry.
- [Gibson] Jade teeth. - [Safinia] Teeth.
[Gibson] Inlays in their teeth. Look at this.
Paint, tattoos, scarifications, everything.
[Safinia] That man was cast for his laughing ability.
[Gibson laughs] Yeah.
[Gibson] And the slave trader are both real Mayans.
But the woman slave trader was our dialogue coach,
the most demure little woman, shy.
And then when she got to be the slave trader she became this callous harridan
who was trading in human misery.
[Safinia] Miriam Tun. Everybody knows about you, Miriam.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] A lot of this bamboo and kind of woodwork that they did
that go upon the stone was really great.
And it must have been there. It was there to be...
- [Safinia] I love how packed it is. - [Gibson] Yeah.
- [Safinia] How deep you see. - [Gibson] This was almost nighttime.
[Safinia] Yes. Dean Semler, light magician.
[Gibson] Yeah, and he threw a light back there.
Amazing.
But this, look at this stuff, the light in here.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] Whew!
[Safinia] These are the murals we chose
that were from San Bartolomé, which were a discovery that was quite recent,
only during the preproduction of the film.
And we chose to go with them
because they were so evocative of what we were trying to tell.
[Gibson] Not only that, but we'd painted murals.
- We replaced them with these. - [Safinia] 'Cause the discoveries...
[Gibson] The colors and the images. So it was pretty cool.
- Yeah, the reveal. - [Safinia] The big reveal.
[Gibson] Yeah. And all the buildings you see...
...in the foreground, one, two, three, four.
There were four real buildings in that shot.
[Safinia] In that shot, yeah.
- [Gibson] That's real. - [Safinia] Everything's real.
[Gibson] And a cast of what seems like thousands.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] Dancing people. I love the way they looked.
Their hair and everything. They're kinda spooky.
[Safinia] There are some very detailed accounts of this stuff,
this kind of ritualized sacrificial ceremony occurring right up
until the arrival of the Europeans.
In fact, we have firsthand European accounts of these types of ceremonies
in a book by Diego de Landa.
But it describes the various ceremonies they engaged in
and specific ones in which there was human sacrifice
in the form of cardiectomies, or removal of hearts.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] And they were for various purposes, to appease the gods,
to appeal for better crops for a good year,
- so on and so forth. - [Gibson] Or for suffering
to appease the gods. Just, you know, bloodletting for the sake of it.
They used to bloodlet on themselves.
[Safinia] This platform you saw with the head spikes in them
is a take from Chichén ltzá.
And the platforms, the square type platforms, are very much
post-classic architecture that we put in here
because the period of the film obviously is set at that time.
[Gibson] There is a mixture of architecture.
[Safinia] Correct. There is.
The pyramid styles are mostly classic, and they helped more.
I remember you making that choice
because it was much better for the composition of the frame
to have these high-rising pyramids that were really overpowering
the central characters of our story and terrifying them,
as opposed to the more squat, flat pyramids
that existed in the post-classic period.
[Gibson] But we did introduce post-classic elements to them.
- [Safinia] Like... - [Gibson] The intricacy of the top.
[Safinia] And the snake head that you see at the top, yeah.
And here, this is my favorite VFX shot.
[Gibson] I love it.
[Safinia] When you see that city in the background. Oh!
[Gibson] Just for an instant.
[Safinia] That's all you need to make people realize these cities
would go on for as far as the eye could see.
[Gibson] There's better shots coming up.
This guy. Now Farhad found this guy 'cause we didn't have a king.
They kept bringing guys from the gym.
And they were very nice guys, but they looked like guys from the gym.
I said, "I need a guy that I wanna know in one look,
'cause he doesn't say anything, why he's the king."
Farhad went to the docks and brought me back three guys,
and, by golly, he had the king with him.
[Safinia] That was a funny day.
[Gibson] He wanted to know on sight he murdered his brother for the job.
- [Safinia] He's got that look. - [Gibson] Got that look.
- [Safinia] What did you call it? - [Gibson] Sneer of cold command.
[Safinia] Sneer of cold command.
[Gibson] I borrowed that from Percy Bysshe Shelley,
- Ozymandias. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] The sneer of cold command.
- But he certainly had it. - [Safinia] Yeah, he did.
- [Gibson] Green eyes. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Almost Egyptian. - [Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
[Safinia] Look at that, as far as the eye can see.
[Safinia] He couldn't have been better. He just...
- [Gibson] This guy? - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] The politician. - [Safinia] Absolutely.
- [Gibson] Who does he remind you of? - [Safinia laughs]
- Which century? - [Gibson] Which congressman?
- [Safinia] That's right. - [Both laugh]
[Safinia] Throughout every century, every civilization,
there's always one of these guys up there doing his little thing.
[Gibson] I mean, we told them to watch the tapes of Mussolini
and the dictator Hitler and just look at their ugly body language
- and that... - [Safinia] Right.
- [Gibson] And it was... - [Safinia] It's the demagoguery,
- the ability to whip... - [Gibson] There's Mussolini.
- Perfect. - [Safinia] He's loving it.
They're both exchanging these looks of, yeah...
They're whipping the crowd up into a frenzy.
[Gibson] All these people down here, they're folks,
regular working folks from Veracruz. They got so into it.
They were so cooperative, so uncomplaining,
- and honestly, they were wonderful. - [Safinia] One thing to notice...
[Gibson] I really found out a lot about the people of Mexico from this.
They're so gracious.
Amazing. They just went for it.
They just went for it, you know. It's great.
[Crowd cheering]
[Gibson] It was not comfortable. It was hot.
- [Safinia] It was very hot. - [Gibson] Scorching.
[Safinia] We had to have little Red Cross tents
with air conditioners in them so that people could cool down.
[Gibson] Mm-hm.
The food bills were heavy, I tell you. [laughs]
This guy, he's a farmer from Catemaco.
[Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] He's doing a performance thing. It's amazing.
[Safinia] Close up.
[Gibson] He's like, "Whoa, me?" "Yeah, why not?"
[Safinia] I love how you stay well back from that.
The expectation is to go right in, but it's just shot from far away.
[Gibson] Well, you know, it doesn't pay to sort of focus too much on that.
- It is a cardiectomy after all. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] Look at that town. Ooh! Chicago.
[Safinia] One of the things Tom was trying very hard to do
was to give you the impression that the town was always under construction.
There's always something being built somewhere or renewed somewhere,
so you'll see the pyramid that's got the scaffolding around it,
people working on it and still participating in the ceremony.
- [Gibson] Ugh. - [Both laugh]
[Gibson] Just awful.
But it was far worse than that.
They used to cut their hands and their feet off as well.
[Safinia] They did. And once these bodies were rolled down,
they would actually flay them, rip the skin off and wear it.
- [Gibson] Wear skin. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] We're letting you off light,
no matter what anyone tells you about inaccuracy.
[Safinia] This here is the Guinness Book of Records longest stair fall, ever.
Started at the top of that pyramid...
- [Gibson] 80 steps. - [Safinia] Rolled down.
[Gibson] Whatever it was.
[Panting]
[Grunting]
[Gibson] Funny, when you turn these guys upside down.
[Safinia] It looks even worse. [Laughs] If it can, and it does.
[Gasping]
[Gibson] They were very adept at keeping people alive while removing things.
They used to cauterize them and take out their whole system almost.
[Safinia] There's an account of the king of Copán being captured
and kept alive and tortured for nine years, during which time
they disemboweled him and removed various parts of his body,
and also managed to keep him alive for that entire time...
[Gibson] Nine years! Unbelievable.
[Safinia] Mostly, it was so that they could humiliate somebody,
especially a ruler of an opposing city. It was all about the humiliation.
[Gibson] Mostly humiliation. No mercy on a ruler.
The higher you're ranked, the more they humiliated you.
[Gasps]
[Gibson] I think it's a little bit the same now, don't you?
[Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] Did they look inside their mouths and look for their teeth?
[Gibson whispers] Where did that come from?
- [Safinia] She's so good. - [Gibson laughs] Yeah.
[Safinia] She found it.
- So did he. - [Gibson] Yeah.
They all found it. They were good, these kids.
I'm proud of 'em. [chuckles]
[Crowd cheering]
[Safinia] So it's a well-known fact
- that the Mayans were... astrologers. - [Gibson] Astrologers.
[Safinia] Knew about the planetary movements, the movement of the sun.
And I think the thing that we were trying to say here was, well,
within any society, civilization, who holds the information,
who is aware of it, and if they do have it?
- [Gibson] How do they use it? - [Safinia] How do they use it? Yeah.
[Gibson] Even though Papa Smurf has gone through some shenanigans,
- it's like... - [Safinia] It's clearly a...
[Gibson] It's a dumb show.
And, you know, the educated always... Knowledge is power.
[Safinia] That's right. If you're able to manipulate that information
to achieve your own political ends, then I think you're saying something
that's quite universal, across all societies.
[Gibson] Even if everybody knew about it, it's still amazing.
- [Safinia] Yes. - [Gibson] An eclipse, "What is it?"
Look at this guy. [laughs]
[Safinia] Just these shots, these completely still. [laughs]
- [Gibson] "Hey, uh, uh, fellows?" - [Safinia] Yeah. [laughs]
[Clamoring]
[Safinia] An eclipse, a solar eclipse, looks like a 360 degree sunset,
which is very weird.
Yeah, that's enough.
[Safinia] I love the way he does that. [Laughing] It's so frightening.
- [Gibson] I love this. - [Safinia] This shot.
[Gibson] The silhouette.
[Cheering]
[Gibson] Dean had a special rig here with the lighting on the people.
He was able to raise and lower the light in the daytime.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] And bring it down.
[Safinia] He had a screen that would slide across the...
- [Gibson] Musco Light. - [Safinia] The Musco Light.
And the screen would come across the Musco Light and effectively create
the effect of an eclipse happening,
and then remove itself and make it look like the sun was coming back.
[Gibson] I don't know anyone's done an eclipse on film before.
- [Safinia] I haven't seen one. - [Gibson] No.
[Crowd cheering]
[Safinia] Beautiful costumes.
- Mayes Rubeo. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] And the jewelry and the makeup is just...
[Gibson] Amazing how seamless that was, in different places.
[Safinia] Yes, totally different.
Now this is something, again, that we have some historical records for.
The... When the Holcanes would capture victims from other cities,
they would often use them for target practice, but they never...
We're not sure they would allow them to run.
What we do know is they would hook them up to these scaffolds and fire at them.
- Yeah. As targets. - [Gibson] Pepper 'em with arrows,
different distances, like a target range.
[Safinia] Yeah. There are images of it too that show this. The...
What we did here for this scene was obviously to...
- [Gibson] Make it compelling. - [Safinia] Set it free, so they ran.
[Gibson] You said, "Why wouldn't they want a moving target now and then?
It must have got boring just using a guy like a pin cushion."
[Safinia] Makes it more fun, yeah.
And this kind of arena exists all over the Mayan world.
Most of them, and the Aztecs too, engage in this sport, this ball game.
And they had lots of ball courts everywhere that would allow
for this kind of activity.
- [Safinia] Remember how that happened? - [Gibson] Kid with the arm.
[Safinia] The 14-year-old with the arm.
[Gibson] Nobody could hit this guy.
- He had a balloon with... - [Safinia] With red blood, and he...
- [Gibson] Fluid. - [Safinia] He threw it
- and hit him every time. [laughs] - [Gibson] Yeah.
CGI.
[Groans]
[Safinia] A lot of those arrows coming in, actually flying in,
that was Simon Atherton, the armorer, chasing these guys
just off-camera and throwing arrows at them. [laughs]
- [Gibson] And some of them are CG. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Others are already there. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Gasping]
[Gibson] They did use captives as target practice,
but for the purposes of being compelling in film, we invented this little game.
[Safinia] Yeah, so that they'd run.
[Gibson] Probably, if they had made it to the cornfield, they'd let him go.
- [Safinia] It's very possible. - [Gibson] The guy
does the inexcusable before he gets away.
[Safinia] He certainly does, yeah.
Ah!
[Safinia laughs] Ouch.
- [Gibson] Why not? - [Safinia] Why not?
- [Grunts] - [Cheering]
[Grunting]
[Safinia] The combination of the shots you're using here are so interesting,
'cause you're doing very long wide shots
and lots of handheld close-up shots,
and trying to tell the story in a way that hasn't been done before.
You don't see the things happening up-close necessarily.
[Gibson] You try and tell it without actually showing it.
[Safinia] That's right.
Ah!
- [Gibson] I love this. - [Safinia] Ooh. Oh! [laughs]
[Gagging, choking]
[Gibson] Raoul was great here. So was the kid.
- [Safinia] Really great. - [Gibson] Amazing. [laughs]
[Safinia] This is where he really makes 'em human.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] Therefore, more frightening.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] Sometimes you've also got to know when not to play any music, right?
[Gibson] Mm-hm.
[Safinia laughs] He's freaked out.
- [Gibson] He's great. - [Safinia] He really is.
Bernardo Ruiz, who is a woodworker, right?
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] Carpenter from Oaxaca.
[Gibson] Cool shot.
[Safinia] It's a good shot with our Steadicam operator running backwards.
- [Gibson] Yeah. Fast. - [Safinia laughs] Yeah.
[Both laugh]
- [Gibson] I love this. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] It's the big... bird's-eye view.
Ah!
[Gibson] Phew.
[Flies buzzing]
[Safinia] This was a fantastic set.
Because what it was was hollow, really,
and the impression the camera gives with the right lens
- that it's flat. - [Gibson] Yeah.
- Like it goes on forever. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] And it was a pretty big area.
[Safinia] It was built on the edge of the jungle.
A lot of this, it's amazing how much it was created for real.
And we're starting to uncover some archaeological records
of these great mass graves, too, in places like Cancuén,
which was a classic site in which they uncovered something,
a grave that contained bodies that had been shown to be ritually killed.
[Gibson] How many?
[Safinia] I don't remember, but that was Mayan.
- We found more in the Aztec area. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Gibson] I like the musical change that happens here. It goes all quiet.
Lyrical.
[Groaning]
[Gibson] He looks really scared. [laughs]
[Safinia] We have to mention the job that John Wright has done.
- [Gibson] Editing? You kidding me? - [Safinia] To build this sequence,
in terms of all the elements of seeing them and seeing the blood,
- going back to them and... - [Gibson] Oh, no, John
is a grade-A editor. I worked with him on The Passion,
and, uh... his abilities,
if I didn't say it before, I'm sorry. It's just, he's an amazing editor.
[Safinia] It's so seamless, and when you're working with visuals,
particularly like this, that don't have dialogue attached to them,
you really have to rely on how you want to build the story, yeah.
[Gibson] How you see it, yeah.
And he's, uh... he's good like that.
[Growling]
[Safinia] Three days old? Three or four days old, this little thing.
- [Gibson] Yeah. Cute. - [Safinia] It was so cute.
It was so young that it couldn't focus, because, like babies,
human babies can't focus when they're young, with their eyes.
This one couldn't either.
Aside from being the namesake of the central character, the jaguar was also
the... a very, very important animal
in the mythic pantheon of animals that the Mayans had.
[Gibson] King of their jungle.
[Safinia] It was king of their jungle, sort of god of the underworld
and had many, many religious significances for them.
To kill one, if you ever should do, was an incredibly bad omen.
[Gibson] Not necessarily. They did it sacrificially.
[Safinia] Well, that's right. But it depend... Yes, it did.
[Gibson] You had to have a good reason. You had to do it right.
- If you just kinda bump one... - [Safinia laughs]
- Things aren't looking good. - [Gibson] That was like, "Ooh."
- [Safinia] They really believed that. - [Gibson] Supposed to let it eat you.
[Safinia] These are the bits where Rudy's ability as an athlete shine.
- He's just... - [Gibson] Guy runs.
[Safinia] He's running at that distance from a jaguar chasing him.
[Gibson] That's really there. It's not CGI. [laughs]
Mind you, there were restraints.
He would never have been eaten by the jaguar.
- [Safinia] No. - [Gibson] Maybe if he tripped.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] I'm kidding. There were safeguards.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] Many safeguards.
But I'm not gonna bother to explain that.
[Safinia laughs] Trade secrets?
[Gibson] Oh, brother. Trade secrets. Mostly just patience.
[Safinia] Yeah. [laughs]
Gosh, it took us a long time to figure out how to do that.
[Gibson] Yes, it did.
- This is my favorite sequence. - [Safinia] In the whole film.
[Gibson] I wanted to make a car... like a foot chase like a car chase.
It starts to get that kind of speed going on it.
- [Safinia] The collision aspect. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] Marco was a really fast runner himself.
[Gibson] All these guys, all these kids were fit.
- They're in their 20s. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Fit as fiddles.
[Safinia] Remember you asked him to interject between Rudy and the jag?
- [Gibson] The cat? No problem. - [Safinia laughs]
- "And don't look back, Marco." - [Gibson] "Don't look back."
[Both laugh]
[Safinia] Here he is not looking back.
- [Gibson] Unbelievable. - [Safinia laughs]
[Screaming]
[Gibson] What happened to a guy who doesn't look back.
[Safinia] Right. Should've looked back, Marco. [laughs]
[Gibson] Of course, there was... As with the tapir,
and the jaguar also,
there was a lot of... You know, we had puppets.
- [Safinia] Ow! - [Gibson] Yeah.
Some of those shots where they're stabbing, where you just see the head
and the paw, that's me sort of clawing at those guys
and them stabbing me with their spears.
[Safinia] I love this bit when they just stop, like...
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] Yeah, it's, "Whoa."
[Safinia] It's really a "whoa" moment.
- [Gibson] Yeah, it is. - [Safinia] Yeah.
That, Genesis... That is the Genesis streak.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] When Dean would open the shutter to 360 degrees
and move the camera at high speed, it would create this streaking effect
where the character in the middle of the frame would be sharp,
but everything around it would be blurry.
[Gibson] Yeah, strobe.
[Safinia] That's another one of the classic lines.
- [Gibson] Definition of a sociopath. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] There's a lot of camerawork not done on the Genesis too.
Anything that's high speed, where the camera's over-cranked a great deal,
had to have been done on a Panavision or Arriflex.
And, um, indeed, even some of the more intimate running shots, Rudy,
uh, running with a four-pound handheld A camera, 16-millimeter.
And all these...
[Safinia] Chad, camera operator, was chasing him
with a handheld 16-mil camera,
which gave us some of that really frenetic stuff that you mix in
with the rest of it, and it works great.
[Gibson] Yeah, it melds right in with it. These days, it's amazing.
[Safinia] Here we're harking back a little bit to the old prophecy.
- And the thing that's great... - [Gibson] Bush medicine here.
[Safinia] The thing that's great about these sequences is the sound.
The sound guys here are just, you know...
There's the background of the jungle and the music.
[Gibson] I like this next bit. You take all natural sound out
- and go with the music. - [Safinia] Right.
[Gibson] So it's cool.
[Safinia] You almost never ever cut back to the same angle on this film, do you?
- [Gibson] No. There's so many angles. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Love this. Yeah.
[Safinia] This is Rahat again, yeah.
[Panting]
[Safinia] One of the few night scenes in films that you see that are not blue.
Nights are always blue in movies, and Dean made this one...
- [Gibson] Not blue. - [Safinia] Made it real. [laughs]
[Gibson] Yeah. The night looked real.
This was just firelight. Yeah.
Look at that.
[Safinia] You kept wanting them to get those fires closer
- to their faces. - [Gibson] And they're like, "No!"
- [Laughter] - [Gibson] "What's wrong?"
- [Safinia] "My hair is burning." - [Both laugh]
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Animal screeches]
- [Screeching] - [Gasping]
[Safinia] Those howler monkeys actually do make this sound.
- It's a shrieking kind of awful. - [Gibson] Horrible. [growls]
Like that. Now you might think a howler monkey's cute, but...
- [Safinia laughs] - I'll tell you,
you don't want one on your case, especially injured.
[Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] Hopefully you'll have a stalactite when he comes a-calling.
[Safinia] Nearby.
[Animal growls]
[Gibson] There's a lot of puppets at work...
[Safinia] As well as real monkeys.
- Real monkey. - [Gibson] Intercut.
[Safinia] Yeah. This little boy really did not like the puppet.
[Gibson] Hated the puppet.
- It was like... - [Safinia] So these looks are genuine.
[Gibson] "I don't like that thing."
- [Safinia] He's really not impressed. - [Gibson] "I don't dig that puppet."
I didn't like the puppet. It came around me, but I'd say, "Get it away from me."
[Panting]
[Gibson] You thought it was ten minutes before the next
- "cat out of the closet" moment. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] But no.
[Safinia] Again, that's a real snake launching...
- [Gibson] Into plastic. - [Safinia] Into plastic.
[Gibson] Into a prosthetic.
- [Safinia] That's not a real snake. - [Gibson] No. That's a faker.
[Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] It's a real guy though. - [Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] Something interesting about the line he says,
which is that the original Mayan language is actually a carnal language.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] He's actually saying
that sentence in Mayan, which exists and is used quite commonly.
One of the things that I've heard from people is asking us...
- [Gibson] "How come you put that in?" - [Safinia] "Something
so idiosyncratic and weird that was clearly not part of what they'd say?"
In fact, if you listened to Mayan,
they referred to these kinds of words all the time,
and it's very much part of their language.
[Gibson] Inguinal language.
[Safinia] Very much, and I think it's a reflection upon us today
and our sensibilities, that we think they wouldn't have used these words,
whereas, in truth, why wouldn't they?
[Safinia] That fer-de-lance would kill a man if you couldn't find
the appropriate anti-venom within a few hours.
[Gibson] Oh, less than a few.
If you go for an hour, you're a croaker.
- [Safinia] You're pretty much. - [Gibson] Depends where he bites you.
[Safinia] Richard was handy with that bow and arrow.
[Gibson] He was into archery. He was the kindergarten teacher.
[Safinia] Right, man with the bow and arrow.
[Gibson] Mean-looking guy.
Apparently his kids'll never go back to school with him again now.
[Safinia] Now a lot of these shots, you actually shot them backwards, right?
[Gibson] A lot of them, yeah.
[Safinia] To get the right effect, then played the film forward.
[Gibson] Right. Like with that ball hitting the tree and stuff,
you had to get Rudy to run backwards and then rip the ball out of the tree,
and just, you know, those kinds of weird tricks.
Did that a few times.
[Safinia] And I think what is quite cool here is that this music that's playing
is the same music underneath that we hear during the tapir hunt,
- at the beginning. - [Gibson] Man as tapir.
I love this shot.
We almost ran out of time for this shot here.
[Safinia] They're going down the tree.
[Gibson] This was Dean's concept. He wanted to do it,
but he was saying, "We haven't got time."
I said, "Dean, we gotta do it." And he said, "Oh, righto." [laughs]
But it's beautiful.
[Safinia] This location is also not far from where we shot the jungle location.
In fact, it's in the same state where they have this waterfall.
[Gibson] Massive waterfall, yeah. It's a whopper.
[Safinia] Everybody asks me how you did this.
- [Gibson] Really? - [Safinia] How did you do this shot?
- [Gibson] Well, let me tell you. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] Called Spydercam.
Just hook a few cranes up and have some wires,
and you can make the camera do that all in one.
[Safinia] And there have been stories on the Internet, which are true,
of when we were shooting here.
- A real cow... - [Gibson] Fell over the waterfall.
[Safinia]... fell over that waterfall and survived.
[Gibson] Mm-hm. But people have jumped off there and not survived.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] Come up weeks later as soup.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - [Gibson] And, uh...
...big jump. It's about 175 feet.
So in order to get that effect,
we had to jump Rudy off a 175-foot building in a harness.
[Safinia] It's a good example, this sequence,
of the marriage between stunts,
visual effects and camera work,
because, uh, the shaky effects
and the steam and everything really sell it.
Of course, the rest of this is all real.
[Gibson] Not all. There's a few jumps that aren't.
[Safinia] Oh, that's right. I know. [Laughing]
[Gibson] But they look good, dynamic.
But that is a real waterfall. It's a beauty.
- [Gibson] Remember Get Smart? - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] When he used to say something arrogant like this to...
The other guy would get the upper hand, he'd say,
"Hey, I hope I didn't get to you with that crack about this being my forest."
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] It's like...
[Safinia] I love the other guys in this. Look at them...
- [Gibson] They're like... Lookit. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Huh. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] Like, "What did he?" Yikes. [giggles]
[Safinia] Again, another real jump, this one, off another... a crane.
- [Gibson] Real jump off another area. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Of course, that's all real. - [Safinia laughs] Yeah.
- [Gibson] He's happy he made it. - [Safinia] Yeah.
You wanted a big smile there. He just...
This... People... Oh!
[Gibson] Worst part of the film.
- [Safinia] It is. It's just... - [Gibson] That's a primal fear.
Jump in the water. There could be something...
[Safinia] Something down there.
- [Safinia] This is actual stunt work. - [Gibson] Guys are taking the ride.
That wasn't easy. You get banged around in there.
- [Safinia] So is he here. - [Gibson] Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. Oh, the mud hole. Oof.
[Safinia] Again, I have to say, testament to the work of the...
- [Gibson] Chucho Duran. - [Safinia] Also the makeup people.
To ask a makeup crew to create prosthetics and makeup
that you can put through water and mud and jungle...
- [Gibson] I see what you're saying. - [Safinia] Amazing.
- And Rudy... - [Gibson] Love the way he looks around.
[Safinia] Just goes down under that thing.
[Safinia laughs]
- [Safinia] Greens. - [Gibson] Isn't it something?
- [Safinia] Amazing. - [Gibson] Beautiful.
[Safinia] There's an observatory there and they...
- [Gibson] Doesn't look real. - [Safinia] No.
- [Both laugh] - [Safinia] No. They did a great job.
[Gibson] I love this.
[Safinia] This is my favorite moment in the film.
[Gibson] When he pops out... [screeches]
[Safinia] Primal kind of the rebirth of man kind of thing,
- coming out of the earth. - [Gibson] Reborn of mud and earth.
[Safinia] And it was prophesized too...
- [Gibson] The kid. - [Safinia] Can you believe it?
- [Gibson] How about that? - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] How about that? Must be self-fulfilling prophecy.
[Both laugh]
[Safinia] But I think honestly that the visuals here are just wonderful.
- [Gibson] Pretty. - [Safinia] Yeah.
He went for it. He did it. He just went under and came up.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] Mud in his mouth...
[Gibson] His eyes, I mean, ugh.
- He had scratches on his irises. - [Safinia] And he looks like...
- [Gibson] A jaguar. - [Safinia] That's right. Yeah.
[Safinia] They were chasing that flare all day.
[Gibson] Yeah.
I kept making him jump, or, "Now do it over here. Get that flare."
We just get a hint of it.
[Safinia] I love the way you always said that the most important moment
in this character's arc, you played on the back of his head.
- You don't even see him. - [Gibson] Yeah. You see it there. Ooh.
- [Gibson] So private. - [Safinia] Mm-hm.
- [Gibson] He's talking to himself. - [Safinia] Right.
- Don't want to be on the other side. - [Gibson] No.
- [Gibson] Kind of looks like Gumby. - [Safinia] Yeah, yeah.
[Gibson] And the beautiful Dalia, and the kid is adorable.
- Everything. - [Safinia] This is his scene.
[Gibson] Yeah. Oh, absolutely. He doesn't do anything. [laughs]
[Safinia] This, yeah.
[Safinia] You work really hard to create something between them
that was, you know, on a more level footing than...
- [Gibson] But that's right. ...than a motherlson relationship.
[Gibson] This, I mean, you can imagine she had him when she was 14.
They practically are like...
[grunts]
[Safinia] Dalia's quite athletic too.
She's a dancer from Jalapa in Veracruz.
She's a dance student.
[Gibson] We saw her in action.
She used to get on the floor and do the salsa dancing.
Unbelievable. That gal can move.
- [Safinia] This music cue is fantastic. - [Gibson] Great music cue.
[Safinia] James Horner really did a good job on this.
[Gibson] This is a great cue.
[Safinia] Everything is told visually, completely.
Nothing is... He hasn't got anyone to speak to.
He's not gonna say anything to the frog.
[Gibson] Ain't much dialogue after the cornfields.
[Safinia] No, nothing really.
And that was really always a goal. It was an aim to create that kind of thing.
Ariel, who plays Hanging Moss.
- [Gibson] He's allergic to wasps. - [Safinia laughs] Allergic to wasps.
Again, a great combination of greens work and set design here
to create this tree with the water underneath it,
in the rest of the forest
- and blend it in. - [Gibson] To make it distinguished.
You haven't seen it before,
and when you see it again, hopefully it will tell you that the man's just run
- around in a big circle. - [Safinia] Mm-hm.
[Gibson] Not just that, but traveling from left to right, right to left,
- on the overhead shot. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Hopefully we get the story. - [Safinia] I think so. Yeah.
[Gibson] I love this build to nothing.
[Safinia] It takes you somewhere else.
'Cause you think he's waiting for them, but then... oops.
[Gibson] He don't like thunder. "What's up?"
[Safinia] Dalia also had a great stunt double.
- [Gibson] Tough gal. - [Safinia] Nayeli.
Yeah, whose... There aren't many stunt women in Mexico.
- And... - [Gibson] I think there was one.
- [Safinia] We got her. - [Both laugh]
And here she is doing her...
[Gibson] No, there were three, at least, working with us, yeah.
- [Safinia] True. - [Gibson] Probably six, at that rate.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] She was up for it, man, taking the falls with it.
[Gibson] That was done the old-fashioned way.
- [Safinia] The zoom-in move. - [Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] I love this, when he looks at it. [laughs]
[Gibson] "What the?"
[Safinia] Remember you told him, "You're losing a limb at a time,
in terms of your ability to use them." He started failing.
[Choking]
- [Gibson] I just love this sequence. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] Took a long time to film it. - [Safinia] A very long time.
[Gibson] And this is an example of the Genesis and film going hand-in-hand.
You can't tell where one begins and the other...
[Safinia] It's about the number of angles you show in this thing.
- Everything is different. - [Gibson] There's a million of them.
[Gibson] Ooh.
The sound too, the sound work here.
[Safinia] Yep, slowing it down, taking a little bit surreal.
[Gibson] It's good.
- What you take out, what you leave in. - [Safinia] Mm-hm.
- [Yelling] - [Grunting]
[Safinia] Now this shot here, I remember, Rudy was trying very hard...
[Gibson] Not to laugh.
[Safinia] Gerardo was pulling all these faces.
- Look at him there. He's... - [both laugh]
[Safinia] Look, he's trying so hard.
[Grunting]
[Gibson] Oh, just from nowhere.
[Thunder rumbles]
[Gibson] See, it's the only thing he's afraid of now, rain.
[Safinia] All that's left. The rain here
is the work of Chucho Duran's team down in Mexico.
Making it look like it's raining everywhere is...
- [Gibson] Boy, that was tough. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] A lot of area. - [Safinia] A lot.
Some of these shots are very wide.
[Gasping]
- [Gibson] Cool. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] Love that close-up. Love these close-ups with the light here.
- [Safinia] This one, the taking away. - [Gibson] Oh, yeah.
- [Safinia] Taking off. - [Gibson] That guy can run.
[Both laugh]
[Safinia laughs] It's the boy. A boy's just...
- [Gibson] He's having pains too. - [Safinia laughs] He is.
- He loved being in there, though. - [Gibson] Oh, yeah.
[Safinia] When we turned the water on, it was like we just... it was all
- happening at the same time. - [Gibson] He'd play and swim around.
It's a great shot.
[Gibson] Love the water dripping off his eyeball there, really ominous.
[Safinia] It's hard. We realized, making this,
how hard it is to keep eyes open in the rain.
- [Gibson] You kidding? - [Safinia] These guys did.
[Gibson] We tried. Brutal.
[Safinia] You bribed people with ice creams...
- [Gibson laughs] Houses, cars. - [Safinia] Houses, cars.
[Gibson] I said they won't actually be life-size, any of them.
- [Gibson] I forgot about that trap. - [Safinia] Great sound job.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] Amazing.
There's so many different sounds you hear at the same time on that trap.
So that you know what's coming.
[Safinia] Another really cool cue here from James on the music.
[Gibson] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Good cues. All this music is great.
[Safinia] Mm-hm.
[Groaning]
[Safinia] So this is, um...
This is where the story started really, isn't it?
[Gibson] Yeah, this is the first thing I thought of.
[Safinia laughs] You said it was a joke.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] You said there's a guy being chased by ten really bad guys
and he comes out onto this beach and he collapses
and he's exhausted and he looks up.
[Gibson] It's the end, Columbus is arriving...
[Safinia] Christopher Columbus.
And we laughed. We thought, gosh, that's really funny.
But, you know, in truth,
the first encounter of Europeans with mainland...
- Any mainland civilization... - [Gibson] Was Mayans.
[Safinia]... was Mayans in 1502 when Columbus had his fourth expedition.
[Gibson] Right here. And I believe it was four ships.
[Safinia] It was, and he actually got back only with one.
- He had a rough time. - [Gibson] Ooh, rugged.
- [Safinia] Yeah. - Had a rougher time when he got back.
[Safinia] So people have said to me,
"Is this conquistadors?" It doesn't really matter.
In truth, the first encounter was, yes, Spanish.
And it was Columbus in 1502, when he ran into a Mayan...
[Gibson] Everyone calls it "conquistadors." They don't know...
[Safinia laughs] They don't.
[Gibson] They presume to know what they're talking about.
Maybe if they did their damn homework.
[Safinia] We never said anything. You see these people twice.
[Gibson] Yeah.
[Safinia] The, uh... Those ships were real again.
[Gibson] Yeah. And by the way, the conquistador was the set designer.
[Safinia] Tom Sanders.
[Gibson] And the Franciscan was Simon Atherton, the weapon guy.
[Safinia] The weapons master.
[Crying]
- [Gibson] And that's not a real baby. - [Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] But the thing here is Dalia's look.
- Where did she find that? Amazing. - [Gibson] Beautiful.
[Safinia] She's amazing.
- [Gibson] That's a real baby. - [Both laugh]
[Safinia] She's really wonderful in this scene.
So is he.
[Gibson] She didn't know it, but she has the soul of an actress.
[Safinia] Yes. Actually, what they're both able to do is...
Is allow you to read into a lot more that's going on
- underneath the words. - [Gibson] Yeah, it's great.
[Gibson] Hmm. Nice music cue at the end.
Hmm.
Interesting.
- See, there's Farhad. - [Safinia laughs]
- [Gibson] There's... - [Safinia] That's you, though.
- [Gibson] There's Bruce. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Laughter] - [Safinia] Ned and Vicki.
- [Gibson] Ah, yes, Dean's the man. - [Safinia laughs, coughs]
[Gibson] Tom Sanders.
[Safinia] Tom Sanders grew his beard for a year,
vying for that part of the guy in the boat.
[Gibson] We had a bet, but I couldn't take it anymore.
- [Safinia laughs] - [Gibson] Yeah.
No, everyone did a sterling job.
[Safinia] Carla with her casting, searching almost, I think,
something like three continents looking for people.
- [Gibson] Hey, you were on there twice. - [Safinia laughs]
[Safinia] And, of course, all the Mexican crew.
- [Gibson] Oh, wow. - [Safinia] With Anna Roth and...
[Gibson] Unbelievable.
The effort and the ability down there is... It's amazing.
The grips. You were always blown away by...
[Safinia] I couldn't believe. I kept describing things.
The amazing thing about this film, I think, everybody remembers
is the chase, you know, and the insane velocity
with which you're shooting and capturing everything.
And I think if you try and think about sometimes there's a guy pushing
an actual dolly at that pace and having to stop it.
- [Gibson] Yeah. - [Safinia] That's the thing,
trying to stop the dolly as it's going along at whatever it is,
- 15 miles an hour. - [Gibson] One time,
the dolly came off the tracks, and one of the grips,
he caught the whole piece right in his lap, didn't he?
[Safinia] Oh, that's right.
[Gibson] Lucky he was an enormous man. I think it would have squished him.
[Safinia] I know.
[Gibson] I don't think he was feeling too good.
[Safinia] The grips,
because also they had to deal with that jungle terrain, and it's not easy to do.
It's very rocky and difficult to work in.
But I think also, the other thing for me
was it's the most amazing combination of set design, makeup,
costume and visual effects that I've seen in anything.
You don't realize, when you watch this film,
and we didn't point everyone out,
but there's something like 400 visual effects shots in this film.
- [Gibson] That's right. - [Safinia] And you're...
...hard-pressed to find one. - [Gibson] If you see.
That's Ted Rae. He's, uh... He likes to...
He likes to cover his tracks.
Hopefully, if you know the action's going along
and you're involved in the story, you won't think of that.
[Safinia] Won't think about it.
[Gibson] Every department did an excellent job.
- [Safinia] There are the sound guys. - [Gibson] Oh.
[Safinia] Hopefully, 19th is the lucky one for Kevin O'Connell.
- [Gibson] For Kevin O'Connell. - [Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] He's been nominated 19 times for an Oscar in sound and never won.
He's the most nominated man ever, but...
Not that he didn't deserve it. He's done great work.
- [Safinia] That's true. - [Gibson] I've used him twice,
and he's the ant's pants. And he'll probably get it.
[Safinia] I hope so. [clears throat]
And here we go with the makeup crew.
Look at these names.
[Gibson] Look at this. Whew, keep on going.
[Safinia] They just keep on going.
Every single one of them deserves to be there and... because they just...
The sheer grit with which they came back every single day
and put in the effort is really what is up there on the screen
for us to all see, and the hairstylists as well.
Aldo Signoretti designed those insane hair... [laughs]
[Gibson] He's good at big hair.
[Safinia laughs] He's good at big hair. No, but the detail,
and thank God for the Genesis, because you could pick up...
- [Gibson] Textures. ...textures within the hair
- of those women in the city. - [Gibson] Just amazing.
I remember Anna Roth, our Mexico unit manager,
who said to me, the day that we shot the first scene at the top of the temple,
and she saw the king and the queen and all the nobility up there
with all the adornment and the dress and the scar on their faces
and the tattoos.
And she looked at it, and she was quite silent for a little while.
And then she said, "You know what? It's not that different today.
We still go for so much personal adornment."
And that was the most amazing thing to her.
And I was really happy that she said that
because you are trying to say some things about how things haven't changed
all that much and...
[Gibson] I remember going to the set that morning.
Maybe it wasn't that morning. But it was one of those days
when it was a real big day with a lot of extras, and the temple.
[Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] And I remember, I saw little Mayes running around.
And I just looked at the costumes, and I got really emotional.
'Cause I realized the amount
- of almost perfect work that she did. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] She was humble. - [Safinia] That's right.
[Gibson] I just almost started crying because I...
- I told everybody that. - [Safinia] You got on the microphone.
[Gibson] I told everybody how proud I was because it was like, wow.
It blew my mind. When I saw it, it was like, wow.
Everybody was... Everybody did a top job.
[Safinia] They did, and again, like we mentioned earlier,
the AD crew could be mentioned again,
because organizing people who've never been in front of a camera before,
and hundreds of them at that...
[Gibson] They were like hamsters on wheels.
- [Safinia] Running. - [Gibson laughs] Like...
[Safinia] And you and they... you used every trick in the book,
including music and trying to get them
to react to what we were playing, extraordinarily lewd Mexican pop songs.
[Gibson] Soccer songs.
- Football favorites, yeah. - To get them to react the right way,
to get the reaction we wanted from them.
[Gibson] And, you know, generally speaking,
- the Mexican people are shy. - [Safinia] They are.
They're quite reserved. But, man, once they get the point,
once they get going, it's like, "Yeah!" They give it everything.
It was like really...
[Gibson] Yeah, the work ethic is huge.
[Safinia] I only realize when I looked at the credits
that we were a multinational shoot. [Laughs] I didn't quite...
It didn't quite hit me that we shot, yeah, in Costa Rica,
and some things in the UK and some things in Ted Rae's backyard.
- [Gibson] Yes. - [Safinia] In the United States.
[Gibson] There's even a macro shot of my ingrown toenail.
[Safinia laughs]
- [Gibson] Mostly Veracruz. - [Safinia] Yeah.
[Gibson] And the people and the governor of Veracruz were great to us, amazing.
I think we were the only show where... Oh, never mind. I won't say that.
[Safinia laughs]
[Gibson] SpyderCam.
Whew.
Color by Deluxe. Don't you love saying that?
- [Safinia] I do. - [Gibson] Color by Deluxe. Say it.
[Safinia laughs] I can't, not the way you're saying it.
[Gibson] No, come on. Color by Deluxe.
- [Safinia] Never gonna be good. - [Gibson] No.
- [Both laugh] - [Gibson] Well, at least say SDDS.
- [Safinia] SDDS. - [Gibson] That sucked.
[Both laugh]
[Gibson] As my agent would say,
"Distributed by Buena Vista Pictures."
- There you go. - [Safinia] Yeah.
- [Gibson] What's that? - [Safinia] Touchstone logo.
[Gibson] Thought there was a hole.
- [Safinia] No. - [Gibson] Oh.
- [Safinia] And I think Icon's next. - [Gibson] Oh.
- [Safinia] There. - [Gibson] Let's applaud.
[Whistling, applause]
[Safinia laughs]